A recent BigY-700 result from FTDNA has provided me with a new genetic cousin. Indeed according to FTDNA he is my closest match. His name is Alan Norbury. Our most recent common SNP is R-FGC17096, and this is not shared by any of my BigY matches.
However I do have 2 other close matches who have not done a BigY test and I have now managed to prove they are also positive for R-FGC17096. As a result I have updated my Cheshire Group Haplotree. I have also updated the Cheshire Group section of the SNP Ages from Discover Tool document, and The Cheshire Group document.
This haplotree shows that the Warburtons of the Cheshire Group fall into two distinct subgroups, believed to be descendants of Sir Piers de Werberton via each of his 2 wives. His first family were the ancestors of the Warburtons of Arley Hall. Three clans, my own Hale Barns clan, the Weaverham clan and the Houghton clan, which share SNPs R-FGC17092 and R_FGC17094, are believed to be branches of the Arley clan though the exact links are lost in time. The male line of the Arley clan died out in 1813.
A William Warburton, son of Sir Piers from his second marriage, was granted land in Partington circa 1320. Three clans, and 2 smaller families with STR test matches and connections with Partington are believed to represent William’s descendants. The only SNP test done was a BigY-500 from the Percy Grey family. This shared SNP R-FGC17097 which the members of the Arley branch but not R-FGC17092 or FGC17094, showing it to be a distinct, but closely related branch. However further BigY-700 tests would be useful to give more structure to the Partington branch.
A Historic Error
I was initially rather surprised that I shared R-FGC17096 with Alan Norbury when my 8th cousin Clive had tested negative for it. However, in checking my records I found a small typo. I had asked him to test R-FGC17906. We have now corrected that and proved that he is R-FGC17096 positive. I also asked Brian of the Houghton clan to test and he is also R-FGC17906 positive. I already knew that John of the Weaverham clan was R-FGC17096 negative from his BigY-700 test.
Dating
The FTDNA Discover Tool dates R-FGC17096 to 1565 AD with an error range of 1116-1794 AD. This error range is wider than that for R-FGC17094 which is dated 1482 AD with and error range of 1161-1706 AD. This because it is based on only 2 results, mine which has no private variants, and Alan’s with 3 private variants, and 2 unmatched SNPs. Dating is based on the average number of private variables and the average time between SNPs of about 83 years.
The FTDNA Discover Tool date for R-FGC17097 is 1171 AD (757-1473 AD). By applying what is known of Warburton history we can actually date R_FGC17097 more closely. It must have been carried by Sir Piers de Werberton as he passed it to both of his families. His birth date is estimated as circa 1230. This may be a little early but he was definitely living (and probably adult) in 1261. This puts the latest possible date for R-FGC17097 as Sir Piers birthdate, circa 1230.
The date of R-FGC17096 must be after the Weaverham clan branched away from the main Arley Hall line, either in the Arley clan before the Hale Barns and Houghton clans separated, or in a common root of the Hale Barns and Houghton clans.
My DNA cousin Clive is linked into the Hale Barns clan. The rational for his inclusion is in the document The Cheshire Group, in a section called William Warburton of Ashton-Upon-Mersey (1740-1820). We are both descended from John Warburton of Hale 1608-1691. Admittedly the link is to a degree based on the DNA result, but as there is no way I can link William to the descendants of John’s son, and my 6x great grandfather Josiah, John is our latest possible common ancestor. Therefore R-FGC17096 can be dated to on or before 1608 (John’s birth date).
The Hale Barns Clan
There are sufficient gaps within the Hale Barns clan for it to be possible that the Houghton clan is an unknown branch of the clan. I am particularly suspicious of George, brother of my 6x great grandfather, who was born in 1654, and mentioned in his father’s will of 1686, which was unchanged before his death in 1691. George was the only brother not an executor in either is father’s or brother Enoch’s wills. Enoch died in 1692. This could mean he was incapacitated in some way, but as there is no marriage or burial in the Bowdon parish records, I suspect he had just moved too far away to be an executor. The founder of the Houghton clan is John who was baptised at Newchurch parish church, Culcheth, son of Robert, in 1734.
There is a strong body of circumstantial evidence that the Hale Barns clan was established at Hale Barns in the late 15th century. There are no actual records before the early 17th century. Rental records from the 18th century show they held a 60 acre estate from the local manor in perpetuity, and on a peppercorn rent. Such arrangement usually mean it was granted for services rendered at some point in the past.
A brief history shows that Hale was part of the estates of Hamon de Massey, but disputes led to the land being split between two families, the Chauntrells, and the Stanleys in the 15th century. There is no evidence of Warburtons in Hale in the estate records at the John Rylands library, Manchester, prior to the split. The Hale Barns estate was on the Stanley part of the estate. The Stanley lands were sold in the early 17th century and passed to the Crewe family of Crewe, whose 18th century records show the Warburtons on the Hale Barns estate.
The Stanleys are famous in history for their support of Henry VII at the battle of Bosworth in 1485. As a result they became the Earls of Derby. It is known the Warburtons of Arley Hall were strong supporters of the Stanleys. Sir John Warburton was made a ‘knight of the body’ to HenryVII. It is therefore possible to imagine that the army the Stanleys took to Bosworth included adventurers from the wider Arley family, and they were subsequently rewarded for their support.
STR Dating
In addition to the SNP dating from the FTDNA Discover Tool, dating can be done using the Serial Tandem Repeat (STR) tests that preceded the BigY tests. These tests recorded the number of times a DNA sequence was repeated at a particular location or marker on the Y-chromosomes. Early tests covered 43 markers. A BigY-700 covers over 700 markers including the 111 markers in a FTDNA Y111 test. We have 3 BigY results (John of the Weaverham clan, Alan and myself), and 2 x 43 marker tests (Clive, and Brian of the Houghton clan). There is a second 43 marker result from the Houghton clan which is identical to Brian’s. There are tables that give dates based on the number of generations since the most recent common ancestor based on the number of markers compared, the number of markers that are different, and mutation rates. Dates are based on 35 years per generation before 1945 (my birth date).
The Warburton Cheshire Group mode is the most common result at each marker. Variations are likely to be the more recent changes, At the 43 marker level Clive’s result exactly matches the mode. Everyone else has just one difference, and apart from the 2 Houghton branch results, they are all on different markers. A match might have indicated a closer relationship, as the Houghton results show. It also means everyone has a genetic distance of 1 from Clive, and 2 from each other. This gives dates of 1665 AD (1385-1840 AD) and 1490 AD (1175-1700 AD). Over 111 markers I have 3 differences from the mode, John has 4, and Alan has 6, again all at different marker. Therefore although we know John and I are more remotely related we only have a genetic distance of 7 which gives a date of 1385 AD (965-1665 AD). This is reasonable if the Hale Barns clan split from the Arley clan in the mid 15th century, and the Weaverham clan split earlier. However the genetic distance between myself and Alan is 10 and that gives a date of 1140 AD (650-1490 AD), which is obviously far too early.
Alan Norbury’s Ancestry
The following information on Alan’s ancestry was given to me by Belinda McKay, Alan’s first cousin once removed, who manages his FTDNA account. Alan lives in Tasmania and is the only surviving grandson of Frederick Norbury who was born in 1864 at Over Alderley, Cheshire, and died at Manly, Queensland. Frederick’s brother David also emigrated to Queensland and has several living grandsons. A third brother emigrated to Canada, and a fourth moved to Market Harborough. Their father Samuel Norbury 1834-84 lived in Nether Alderley.
Belinda has then followed the line back through several Thomas Norbury’s to a John born circa 1700 who was married and buried in Rostherne. Rostherne parish is adjacent to Bowdon parish, which includes Hale, where the Hale Barns clan originated. Some public trees on Ancestry suggest an alternative line that goes back to a Philip Norbury born in Mobberley. in the 1710. John, the brother of my 6x great grandfather Josiah, was a tanner in Mobberley from the 1670s.
Belinda reports that autosomal DNA tests such as AncestryDNA has identified cousins with common Norbury ancestors in the past 200 years, and with no anomalies.
Discussion
The issue is to determine a time frame, and opportunity (place) for the event that caused a branch of Warburton to be called Norbury. This I call the Event Date. The actual event could be a boy taking his mother’s name, or the name of a step-father or adoptive father. To help with this I have used SNP dates, particularly for R-FGC17096, calculated time to most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) dates, and historical dates. Unfortunately both SNP dates and TMRCA dates carry wide error margins.
The date for R-FGC17096 is 1565 AD (1116-1794 AD). This gives us an absolute boundary for the Event Date because it must have happened after the SNP occurred. If my theory is correct that the ancestors of the Hale Barns Clan settled on land at Hale Barns granted after the battle of Bosworth, then this date gives a high probability the SNP occurred in Hale Barns. This also means that the Houghton clan is a branch of the Hale Barns clan that split away some time between the mid-16th century and 1734.
If the common ancestor of myself and Clive is indeed John Warburton of Hale Barns who was born in 1608, then this puts a further limit on the date of R-FCG17096. It can be no later than 1608. Clive’s ancestor, William Warburton (1740-1820) was born in Warford, close to Alderley in Cheshire, but he subsequently settled in Lancashire.
The TMRCA dates from the STR tests are somewhat skewed by Alan’s unusually large number of differences from the mode in the 111 marker test. The 43 marker comparisons also seem to throw up slightly early dates. It is probably mere coincidence that Alan’s closest match over 43 markers is Clive, giving a TMRCA date of 1665 AD (1385-1840 AD), which is getting closer to a period of opportunity for the Event Date.
Alan’s ancestors lived in NE Cheshire though exactly where depends on which version of his tree is correct. A strong branch of the Hale Barns clan was established in Mobberley in the 1670s and spread around NE Cheshire. Clive’s ancestors are from this branch. So a window of opportunity for the Event Date opens up after 1670 and is particularly strong in the early 18th century, before it could influence later Norbury autosomal test results. This is by no means definitive, but it does suggest the Norbury-Warburton line was established in the first half of the 18th century, in NE Cheshire, possibly Mobberley.
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